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#283575 - 04/23/08 09:00 PM I don't know what to do...
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I don't know if this is in the right area or not, but I need advice.

Ok, so here's the deal. My girlfriend and I broke up about a month ago. We had been dating for almost 1 year and 3 months, and we had been engaged since Christmas. We got into an argument and then she ended up saying that she couldn't do it anymore and hung up. A couple hours later, she called back and said she didn't know what she wanted, and I said "As much as I don't want to, I think we should take a break..." because she was angry with me over some stupid reason and some stuff said just really upset me.

In order to clarify our relationship, she said she didn't want to have sex because she wanted to be right with God, and she said she didn't want to sneak around with me behind her moms back because she was rebuilding her trust with her mother from her last boyfriend that her mother found out about and found out that she had sex with him. So we didn't have sex or sneak around or anything, I respected her wishes.

Well, I want her back, but I found out 2 weeks ago, that she hooked up with her Ex boyfriend one night and I think they had sex, and now she's been talking to this other guy and I found out that she had given him a hickey and that she was saying some really sexual stuff to him that I never would have expected to hear from her. She's letting this guy sneak over to her house and stuff. So I'm really upset about that and disgusted. I feel like I don't even know her anymore, since she had felt so strong against not having sex and not sneaking around, but then she's doing all that stuff and saying stuff that isn't like her 2 weeks after we broke up.

She says that she still wants a future with me and that she still loves me and won't talk to me about that stuff I talked about above. She says that she wants to have the summer to herself and not be in a relationship, but I feel she's probably still hooking up with that one guy.

I'm so confused, I don't know if she cares about me anymore since she's doing this stuff so soon after we broke up from our serious relationship, or if she wants to be free with guys and have me as a safety net if she needs help or what. She was my first love so she knows that I'll be there if she needs me but I don't know what to do. She just recently turned 18 so now it seems like she doesn't really care about a lot of stuff she's doing now, she doesn't care if she ruins her relationship with her mother now and all this stuff, so I don't know if she just didn't want to have sex and sneak around with me or if she just doesn't care about those things she told me about anymore.

Does anybody have some reasonable response to this or any advice for me. What should I do?

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#283674 - 04/24/08 12:10 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Hello TheTangeMan
I'm sorry to hear this.
I don't understand why she is behaving as she is. It doesn't seem to make sense, but I don't think that you should be considering rushing back into a relationship with her.
She admits that she doesn't know what she wants, but what she seems to want is sex with someone else, while refusing to do the same with you ~ her fiance.

I'll try to think more about this and will try to post again, but this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship.

Sorry to say this, but could you really trust her if you were to resume your engagement and get married?

I think that 17 is too young to get engaged. Teenagers are changing individuals. Who knows what either of you will be like when you have fully matured?

How old are you, by the way?

Good luck welcome to the forum. smile


Edited by PDM (04/24/08 12:11 AM)
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#283742 - 04/24/08 03:57 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I am just about 19 years old, but we knew each other for half a year before we started dating and I literally saved her life by doing something that I don't think I would have done for anybody else. We understood that we were too young to actually get married, but we were going to wait until we both got out of school before we actually talked about it very much.

A lot of people had said we were not really in a healthy relationship because of how she got mad at me for really little things, and I knew that I was whipped by her. But we talked about it, and had decided what we needed to change before we got back together. I have been in college this year, she is graduating from HS, so I think that part of our problems came from the fact that I was gone all week and we only got to hang out on the weekend, while we both worked, so I understand why we were on loose ends.

She says that she wants to take the summer off from us, because she wants to be "free" but, I don't really get why she doesn't feel like getting back together until I have to leave for school again.

As to your question about trust, I don't know, from what I know, she has told me almost everything, even though some stuff I found out for myself. But we already know that both of us have to renew our trust to each other because the way that I found out about these things she's been doing since we broke up was by reading her txt messages. So we have some stuff to work on, but I still don't really know what to think.

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#283841 - 04/24/08 08:58 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Are you sure about what has been going on with her ex?
It may just be some loose ends that needed sorting for closure?

If it really was a sexual thing, then I think that you need to be very wary indeed.

You are both very young to be planning anything serious and long term. She obviously isn't comfortable with this. 'She wants to be free'. If she is seeing other boys, then you shouldn't be comfortable, either ~ but that is just my opinion.

I think that you need to sit down and discuss this as fully & objectively as possible.

She wants to be free ~ at the very time when you could be together.

You think that she is seeing her ex ~ possibly for a sexual relationship.

She didn't want sex with you ~ and I would respect this ~ because she 'wanted to be right with God' and her mother, but she has had sex with ~ and may still be having sex with ~ someone else.

Find out the facts and sort out what is really happening here.
Then consider what you really want ~ at such a young age do you want to tie yourself to someone you cannot trust, or who only wants you, after she has had her fun with other boys???
Sorry to be so blunt!
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#283866 - 04/24/08 10:16 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Thanks, I need somebody to be blunt and tell me what to do, as I said, she is my first love, so I find it hard to get over her if I need to, right now, she doesn't want to talk about it right now, every time I bring up our relationship to her she says that she doesn't want to talk about it now. So I can't sort out all the stuff going on until she will finally talk about it with me. She I talked to her about why she doesn't want to be with me when we could, and she just simply said, "I don't know if I want a boyfriend right now, so just give me some time".

When I first asked her about what she had done with these guys, she said it was none of my business because we were not together at that point, so I have no business knowing who she is talking to or hanging out with. Do you agree with her stance on this, about not telling me because it's not my business to know.

I mean, I kind of understand, if we are not together then I have no right no know what she's doing and she doesn't need to tell me what she's doing. As much as I don't like it.

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#283942 - 04/24/08 11:50 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
Four Keets Offline
Best Friend

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1637
Loc: Orange County, CA
I agree with PDM. Your are young and still learning a lot in life. If she has done what you said she has, then in my opinion (as bluntly as I can):

End it and move on. You deserve better.
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#283964 - 04/25/08 12:38 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: Four Keets]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Yes, indeed Four Keets.

TheTangeMan, if she refuses to discuss your relationship, and tells you that this is none of your business, then think what she is actually saying.
Her love life; her sex life, her whole life ~ none of your business.

Would you consider going off with other girls and telling her it's none of her business?
Do you consider that your life choices are none of her business?

If it's none of your business, because you are not together, then you are not together.

I think that her message is quite loud and clear.

I think that you need to move on.

I appreciate that first love will always be special, but this just doesn't sound right to me.

You will get over this, because you deserve better treatment than this ~ and, deep down, you must know it.

Good luck!
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#283994 - 04/25/08 01:58 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Thanks guys, I guess that I need some time to collect my thoughts about all the things you guys are talking about. I mean, not only was she my first love but my first girlfriend, and I guess just a month isn't long enough for me to move on just yet. I'll keep you updated if you are interested.

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#284199 - 04/25/08 10:51 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Hi Tangeman.

This is likely to be quite a difficult tinme for you, so be accepting of your feelings. And let us know how you are getting on.

Take care! smile
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#284285 - 04/26/08 07:36 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Ok, I basically just brought up everything you guys were talking about with her and we talked kind of, I'm not sure how much me accomplished quite yet, but we talked seriously about our relationship and our choices and how what she's been doing has affected me. Since it's 2am here right now and we just got off the phone, and she has to work in the morning we decided to pause the convo till the morning when we are both rested and thinking a little more clearly, I don't know how we will end up, but I feel so much better now that I actually expressed my feelings. I am glad though that she said that I was "her best friend" still, so even if we do not get together again, which I don't really see happening, deff. not any time soon to say the least, I am glad that she still respects me as a friend if not a boyfriend. So thats where I stand right now, I will keep you all posted as I progress.

It's funny how people I have never met have helped me so much in this situation, when I felt lost just talking to friends. But I guess that's because you guys are only biased in that you only know what I've told you. Thanks again for the help, I know I'm not out of the blue yet, but, as I said, I will keep you posted.

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#284293 - 04/26/08 08:47 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
Soulmate

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: New York
Hi tangman, you have gotten some of the best advice from PDM and others and it sounds like you really are a good friend to her. I am sure that she doesn't realize just what she has in you. If things should suddenly turn around and she wants to return to the relationship with you...I would suggest taking things extremely slow and cautious. I know that you love her, but she sounds very confused and I am sure that you would only want her back if it were for the right reasons. You deserve more than to be a fall back relationship because she finds herself in trouble or lonely at the moment. There can be a lot of repercussions to the lifestyle she is leading right now. Good luck.
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#284385 - 04/26/08 04:41 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Yeah I know and I have tried to talk to her about that.

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#284459 - 04/26/08 07:47 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Talking through things can give you some understanding of the situation, at least, so that must make you feel better.

Take care of yourself.

I agree with Jo about being careful with this.

Sometimes strangers can be more objective ~ and maybe a little older!!!
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#284634 - 04/27/08 05:13 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Well, I got her to come clean about everything tonight, and she expressed her feelings to me, so I understand how she feels, I just don't understand why she feels that way. I realized that despite the fact that I was good to her in some ways, I think I might have ignored some of the signs that she sent out saying that she needed me at times. She says that a lot of her friends could tell that she was sad or something, but I was the only one that couldn't tell.

She just wants to feel free and she says she doesn't care about what she's doing, even though I'm not buying that, she just doesn't want to sound week. I'm pretty sure there are some deeper emotions running through her that I wasn't able to bring out this evening, but I will try. Right now we are on the level of I guess being more like aquaintances rather than friends. She tells me she still cares about me, but just not in the way that I want her to care about me. She says that I am still her best friend, and she just really doesn't know what she wants, so I don't know what to do to help her. I told her that if she ever needed me then she knows that I would be there. So that's where we are now on day i guess 5 of our expedition.

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#284638 - 04/27/08 06:27 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
Soulmate

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: New York
She said she felt sad and her friends could tell. This could be depression. It sounds like she is being honest with you. When she says she just wants to feel free and she doesn't know what she wants I think that is another way of saying she is looking for someone else. She seems caught up in the thrills and excitement. She probably has some preconcieved idea of what love is supposed to be and is searching for the lightning bolt. Love isn't always like that. One minute you can feel ho hum about someone and the next you realize just how special they are. Unfortunately that is usually just after you have done something to loose them forever. One thing is for sure, she is not ready for a committed relationship with you. There is the chance that she may be a little damaged from something in her childhood that is causing her to act out and not show enough self love in her actions. This is a very hard situation for you to be in because you love her and it is possible for someone to help a person find their way back to self love. It is possible to be a good friend and think more of her than she does of herself. Sometimes that is enough to motivate someone who is being self destructive. As I see it, you need to be really honest with yourself about her as a person and honest with her about what you see her doing to herself. If she has relegated you to the friend status, then friends have the freedom and responsibility to be honest. You also have a responsibility to yourself. You love her and she may someday realize just what she has given up in you. At the same time, you don't want to turn your life into one of waiting in the shadows for crumbs forever. If you make it clear you deserve more, perhaps she will see that you do.
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#284654 - 04/27/08 01:52 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
She knows that I deserve better than her, she even says it, and says that I am literally a one in a million kind of guy, but she can't force herself to love me back. As much as that hurts to know, and as much as it hurts to know what she's done now that she's told me everything, I still care about her well being, despite the fact that she has done some stuff she promised she would never do. I told her that I cared about her and she just laughed it off saying "Well you shouldn't because nobody else does, not even me..." I know this has to do with her ex boyfriend and how she felt about him and how that affected her, which she didn't have sex with him btw, she made out with him, and the guy she gave a hickey to was the guy she had sex with, also. She feels scared I think because she doesn't believe that there is such thing as a forever kind of relationship anymore. My parents just divorced, her mom has been married a couple times and all of our friends parents have had problems, she has a fantasy idea that in a good relationship there isn't any problems I guess. She sees all these relationships going down, and she is afraid that that will happen to us so she doesn't want to get involved with anybody for fear of getting hurt, she just wants to be promiscuous and not have to worry about anything.

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#284690 - 04/27/08 04:37 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Tangeman, this girl has issues and needs help sorting them out.

Some relationships founder & some work well. I met my husband when we were both teenagers ~ we are each other's only real boyfriend / girlfriend & we have been together for 33 years. It can work. It has for us and for a number of our friends. However, it often doesn't work ~ and that has been the case for some friends, too.

As her friend, you can give her support, if that is what you choose and what she wishes, but I think that she has made it clear that she no longer loves you as she should if the relationship is going to work ~ so don't expect any changes there. This happens a lot. People change ~ especially as they grow from teenagers into full adults.

Is she really being promiscuous, or just experiencing life?
I don't know, but promiscuity is not good. It can have emotional and physical health consequences.

It may be that she fears your relationship 'going down', or it may just be that she has outgrown the relationship.

Try to deal with this and then go out and find the girl who will be able to complement you long term.


Edited by PDM (04/27/08 04:38 PM)
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#284796 - 04/27/08 09:18 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Well, I don't know really how far you have to go to become promiscuous but I know she told me she had sex with this guy, and I asked her why because she had felt so strongly against it while we were together and she said because he was a good [censored]. I told her that if she keeps it up she's ruining her life, but she says she doesn't care, but I have a strong feeling that she is doing this because she is afraid of commitment, I know I moved too fast when I proposed to her, but I can't sit back and let her do this to herself, she doesn't feel like anybody cares about her anymore, and when I say that I do, she just simply says "well you shouldn't because I don't" and she keeps saying that me not leaving her alone about this is making it too hard, that makes me feel like she may still have feelings for me, but she's trying to forget them because of her fear of being hurt. And since I won't leave her alone about how I feel for her, it's making it hard for her to forget the feelings she has for me. Do you think that I am just trying to justify her actions by thinking this or does it sound like it's a possibility?

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#284879 - 04/28/08 01:30 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Who knows?
Apart from this, has there been a big change in any other part of her life lately?
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#284954 - 04/28/08 03:49 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
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Well, this happened a couple months ago, but she found out that her step-dad got this other lady pregnant after him and her mom split up. And now he's trying to get back into their lives so that might be it. Other than that, the only big thing that I can think of right now was that she turned 18 and she keeps on telling me that because of that she feels so free because she can move out anytime she wants now, so she doesn't really need her moms permission any more, plus she's about to graduate from HS. Basically, I think she feels like an adult finally. That might be it too.

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#284959 - 04/28/08 04:30 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Tangman, I am seeing a little girl who's dad divorced her mom and left this little girl with feelings of rejection and low self worth. I see a young woman who was very hurt by a former boyfriend who again deserted her and left her with feelings of rejection and low self worth. I see a young woman who's step father, who might have taken the place of her real father, deserted her and her mother and once again left her with feelings of rejection and low self worth. I also see a young woman who doesn't feel lovable and is afraid that if she does commit and love someone they will leave just like everyone else has. She is going for the quick fix for love which is sex and using that to bolster her feelings of being unloved. I also think she has been abused by someone in her past. I think she needs to seek professional help. She is displaying actions and saying things that are self destructive. If she keeps going I think she can become suicidal. I agree with PDM, that she has issues. I also think that she cares for you, but not as strongly as she should. I also think that your fears for her well being are warranted. You cannot save her from herself,however, that takes a professional. I am sure some of it is a cry for help, because she knows you love her. She is telling you things that are like bill boards. I believe you can only be her friend and a good friend and be honest with her and encourage her to see a professional. If she wants to know why tell her that she has sadness issues that can be helped and that running away and partying will not made that sadness deep inside go away. Tell her that you want to see her happy, not sad inside, even if your not together.
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#284966 - 04/28/08 07:28 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
PDM Offline

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I agree with Jo ~ she seems to need help.
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#285142 - 04/28/08 08:20 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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I know... honestly, after she broke up with her ex a couple years ago, she was VERY depressed, which I didn't know her at that point, until a couple months after they broke up, but when I found her, she was a broken person. She used to cut, not her wrists, but stuff like that, and the way I did save her life is that she, in fact, was very suicidal at one point, and snuck out of her house in the middle of the night a couple years ago, and I very strongly feared that she would actually take the plunge, literally. So, I rushed out to where she was in the middle of the night, the first time I ever snuck out of my house, or did anything like that that could be considered a rebellious act; and stayed with her and changed her mind, and we started dating a couple months after that, but that was the only time she ever got close to actually doing it. And like I said that was about 2 years ago, so I thought she had become ok, but I found out 2 nights ago, that she has started cutting again.

So I understand that she needs help, but I am afraid to even bring it up because after everything that's happened the past couple weeks, she will get upset with me if I bring anything up involving her well being. Which is something that I don't want her to be, upset. I have a feeling she might have just gone into some form of relapse for a bit, because her whole life is changing right now. But believe me, I am keeping my eye on her, and when I feel the time is right, if she doesn't get better by herself, then I will talk to her about it. I won't let her hurt herself.

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#285145 - 04/28/08 08:25 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

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You sound like a very good friend.
Is there anyone who can support you ~ and her ~ in this?
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#285208 - 04/28/08 09:51 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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I have talked to a guy who is a best friend to both of us, and he has been trying to find out what is going on with her too, since her and him havn't been in the same relationship that I have with her, maybe she will be more open to him, who knows. But yes, I am utilizing others who will help me out.

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#285220 - 04/28/08 10:22 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Tangman, She did not get better. When a person is classed as suicidal, a doctor takes everything in their past and present into consideration. What you saw then and now are symptoms coming to the surface. She is not better until the deep issues that made her cut and contemplate suicide are delt with. I know you love her and you don't want to upset her and feel as if you can protect her from harm but you are not equipped to deal with these issues. Love will not fix the problem. She needs professional help. I know you don't want to make her upset with you, but that will probably be the test of how much you love her. If you don't encourage her to deal with her problems, and something tragic happens, you will never forgive yourself. You cannot be with her twenty four hours a day. Now that you have revealed this information, I would bet my bottom dollar that there is sexual abuse in her past. She is already committing suicide, just one cut at a time. If you need convincing, contact any community help line or call any psychiatric clinic and ask to speak to a professional. Tell them what she is doing and ask their advice. You can do it anonymously. Call on a pay phone so they don't have your number.
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#285283 - 04/29/08 12:23 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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This is an extremely long message (takes up almost 2 while pages on MS Word) Yeah, the more and more I think about it, I think that I need to do this. I'm pretty sure that she would have told me if there was sexual abuse to herself when she was younger, but I know something happened to her younger sister and her dad, but she never fully explained what happened. If anything happened to her, then I am pretty sure she would have talked about it, and if she did and I can't remember, then it couldn't have been any more than a side remark that she then refused to elaborate on. I will ask her about it. What have thought, and what I have always thought was that this has to do with her ex boyfriend. I will explain to you her past with him from what she has told me and what I know. I will try and be as least biased in my story telling as possible, even though I despise this guy from the bottom of my being. This guy, hereby referred to as K, used her big time, but she, L, never realized it. I mean, used her for sexual favors starting early. I guess they were friends in middle school, but K I guess had sex for the first time at a very young age or something, because he started trying to get L to do stuff in the 8th grade. Eventually, she had sex with him I don't know at what age and grade, but either way, he was her first, so that formed an emotional connection to him. Essentially, she devoted every waking moment to him because of this connection that had formed. At this point I'm not sure why, but she started to greatly despise her mother. Well she wrote about this dislike of her mother in a diary, and then her mother found said diary, which also informed her of the fact that she had had boyfriends before that her mother had not known about. So her relationship with her mother was ruined, then one of L's friends betrayed her by telling her mother what she had been doing with K, which destroyed her life even more. So with L's life crumbling, as her mother now knew everything that had been going on in her relationship with K, K believed it was too difficult to be involved with her. So, he decides to break up with her because "He didn't want to deal with her problems anymore" the words she says he actually used. Ok, so that is the the evolution her problems up to April of 2006. I will now take the time to explain her relationship with friends up until April of 2006, (Don't worry this part won't be as long) Ok, so her best friend at this point, A, and a couple of her other friends were all cool at going through school, until L met K, when they finally started going out, and their relationship became VERY physical in the form of sex. Basically, L started spending all her time with K and not with her friends so they turned on her and started lots of rumors and stuff about her. And that is what is left of her friends by April of 2006. Ok, so now by April, she has lost the person that she felt so strongly for, and thought that he was the one for her. Now that she is all alone and hurting, she does not have friends to go to for comfort, and she does not have anybody in her family to rely on because everything was done in secrecy, so her mother could not know about it without hurting her relationship even more. So here she dives into a deep slope of depression because she is broken with almost literally nobody to go to. She still had a couple friends who were loyal to her, however, but that was not enough to outweigh her feeling of betrayal. To add to her pain, K, got a new girlfriend only a couple weeks after their 2 year relationship, that L felt was so strong and meant to be, ended. And K would look the other way and completely ignore her whenever they passed in the halls, so she felt like she had lost her one and only. Then later, one of her few friends left that she felt she could go to to talk to decided the same thing as K did and he said he couldn't deal with her problems. So this all has happened by the end of May of 2006, which was when her and I met. As it stands then, she had lost her relationship with her family, with all but 2 of her friends, and with her one and only, she had quite literally hit rock bottom. Thatís when she started thinking of suicide and cutting. Her and I slowly became friends, and I slowly built up her trust for a couple months, then she got into an argument with another of her friends and THEY stopped talking, now she was down to 1 (not including myself) and she was never really good friends with that person anyways. Then in August of 2006, was the night that I snuck out of my house for her. After that she stopped seeming so depressed, I though that maybe it was because she felt like she had somebody she could talk to again and somebody who cared about her enough to run away in the middle of the night for her. Once she started getting better and K noticed, he decided it was ok to deal with her now, that he could be there for her when she doesnít need him most and he starts calling on her when heís having problems with his relationships, and even though she knew that he had used her by this point, she still had those strong feelings for him that she couldnít and still canít get away from. Then we started dating and she seemed ok for good, and she even told K that she wasnít going to put up with his xxxx anymore. We started dating on September 27, 2006 and stopped March 23, 2008. During that time, she showed no real signs of depression. And now we are at this point. If you have any more questions then please ask. So you can see why I feel it all spans from her ex, K, if she hadn't started with him, she wouldn't have lost her friends and wouldn't have ruined her relationship with her family either. He ruined everything for her, and she needs to know that. I know that this really sounds like it is stretched or something, but I can guarantee you that this is what has happened.


Edited by PDM (04/29/08 11:32 AM)

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#285433 - 04/29/08 05:09 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
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Your account of how it happened and who started the downhill spiril of everything is probably accurate. Perhaps she didn't have sexual abuse by a relative but she has suffered sexual abuse non the less. She was not prepared for a sexual relationship at that young age and probably was pressured into it at first. She probably suffers from all of the same guilt issues as well as betrayal. She is acting out classical self hate behavior. I also don't know what provoked the hate of her mother at one point, but sometimes this occurs because a stepfather does something inappropriate. She wouldn't necessarily tell you. She may feel that telling would destroy the one shred of pride she has left. She might fear that you would think she was awful. She has been abondoned by everyone in her eyes. Yes, you were probably her life line out for a while. I think it sounds like the ex boyfriend came back and reminded her just how much control he still has over her feelings and self esteem. I don't know if she is running away from you as much as she is just running. Running so she doesn't have to stop and feel anything. I think you said she knows he is bad for her. I think he has a deep hold on her. It sounds like she gave him everything in her heart and he destroyed it. We are still back at the core issue. You are not equipped to help that damaged ego and inner self heal itself. She needs to see that the pain she feels will and can go away. She needs to understand that she is worthy of love and that she can love herself again. She needs the love of her mother and she needs to know that she can have that again. It isn't the love from other people that is going to really heal her. She has to learn to love herself again. However it started, it is what it is. The damage has been done and it needs to be undone. I think you are right that she has to see that he is the root of it all. I think she is beginning to see but will need a professional to validate the reality of those truths. She also has to forgive herself. Validation is the process in therapy where the therapist tells her that she is right to feel betrayed,angry and hurt.That her ex was wrong to have pressured her at such a young age. She needs to know she is a good person despite friends leaving.She needs to know that the opinion of angry friends does not make her a bad person. She needs to learn to love herself again and forgive her mother. If she works on realizing these things she needs to know that she will love herself again. It is something that a trained professional knows how to walk her through. She comes to realize it herself. She comes to believe it because a respected unbiased professional says, you're not alone and you are right to feel this way. It becomes believable because a therapist has no agenda. He has no reason to lie or tell her something she wants to hear. Loved ones or friends don't really have that much power simply because they would seem biased in her eyes. You only have the power to encourage her to seek help and be her friend and let her know you will be there for her as a friend. Doesn't it seem funny that the minute that you wanted something from her that she started running. Be the friend for now. All great loves started as great friendships.
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#285440 - 04/29/08 05:58 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I completely agree and what you say seems to make sense, and is stuff that I have been trying to tell her for some time. I am working on seeking professional help and all, and I know that once she gets over this, we will be fine again...maybe not in as intimate as a relationship, but I think she will at least be happy again.

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#285442 - 04/29/08 06:08 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Good luck! We are here if you want to talk.
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#285446 - 04/29/08 06:28 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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Thanks for everybody's support, I think I have talked as much as I can talk before I actually act on anything. Now I just need to get her to open up to me so that we can start talking about getting help.

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#285455 - 04/29/08 11:37 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

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Registered: 12/16/04
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And you need to get her to a good qualified therapist.

Boosting her morale and self-esteem as much as possible will help, too.

When she's saying that no-one cares, it's because she needs proof trhat someone does care.

Subconsciously, I think that she is testing your love for her ~ not necessarily romantic love, but deep and lasting affection.
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#285495 - 04/29/08 03:06 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Posts: 33
Yeah, I understand that. What would be things I could do to prove that though?

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#285900 - 04/30/08 03:38 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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I don't know if this will do it or not, but I have been talking to a bunch of her friends and I have told them how she feels nobody cares about her, so I am throwing her a surprise party with everybody that do love and care for her. Does that sound like something that would cheer somebody up. The party is simply for that, and not for anything else, no birthday or anything like that, its all about her and how people care about her.

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#285964 - 04/30/08 04:11 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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I'm just not sure about this ~ it could go either way.

She might feel happier that people care; or she might be feeling depressed and not in the mood for partying ~ and even a bit upset that you have been talking about her, and her problems, to other people.

I just don't know how it will go ~ I hope, though, that it will be successful.

How to prove that you care?
Just by being there for her, no matter what, and by having no expectations and making no demands.

Good luck. smile
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#286149 - 04/30/08 10:40 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Tangman,Good advice from PDM. I would caution the people you talk to to keep your confidence. In the future it might be better to keep the reasons to yourself. I agree with PDM about keeping her feelings confidential.
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Cookie and Sweetie

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#286209 - 05/01/08 02:18 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Well they don't know why I'm throwing the party, but I just told everybody that I was throwing a party for her, so it's not like I went and told everybody how she was feeling.

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#286264 - 05/01/08 08:08 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

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Oh, good!
I just hope that she can enjoy it.
It might give her a boost ~ hope so!
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#286266 - 05/01/08 11:01 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Sounds like a wonderful fun loving gesture. Good idea.
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Cookie and Sweetie

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#286452 - 05/01/08 09:32 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Thank you, now I have to just be patient for another month. I'll keep everybody updated if anything happens.

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#286511 - 05/02/08 12:23 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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Good luck!
But try to get her to see a doctor or counsellor as well! smile
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#286548 - 05/02/08 02:03 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I can't remember if I have already asked this, but I am afraid to bring up therapy with her because I fear that she will get mad at me again and then stop talking to me about any of this stuff. How should I go about asking her to do this?

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#286570 - 05/02/08 04:14 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Have you brought it up before, and if so what was her reaction exactly? In the meanwhile, I think that you might pose that question to a professional. They could council you on just the right approach for someone suffering from her symptoms. It isn't so much of a problem if she get's angry at you and stops talking. More importantly, she may get turned off on the idea of seeing a professional. If you approach it right the first time, that may be the first and only best time and opportunity to convince her. I would definitely call a community mental health line and explain the situation and ask for a referral to someone who can give you advice. Sometimes, if you call a Dr.'s office, and explain to the receptionist that you have a problem and need to know who to talk to. They can put you in touch with free services. I would make sure it is a psychiatrist that specializes in teenage problems like cutting and suicide. Make sure they understand it is anonymous.(No Names)
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#286588 - 05/02/08 08:13 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
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Yes, her potential reaction has to be taken into account ~ and finding the right time is essential.

It's difficult, but sometimes, with friends you care about, who are not helping themselves because they are so immersed in negative feelings, you have to just be straight with them.

I think I'd say something like:

I hope that you trust me as a friend and know that I wouldn't do anything that I thought would be bad for you.
I know that you might not be happy about what I am about to say, but I care about you and I am very concerned about you.
You have indicated that you are not feeling happy about things and I feel that counselling might help you through this.
Why not just give it a try?
I'll even come with you, if you'd like me to.
Just promise me that you will think about it ~ please!


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#286798 - 05/02/08 09:26 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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I guess, but she is very headstrong. If I bring it up and she doesn't like it, she won't even give me time to finish the sentence after she hears the word therapy.

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#286817 - 05/02/08 09:53 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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You are one of her last closest friends, you have influence by being that. I don't think she will push you away if you approach it as PDM has said. She certainly won't stay angry, and you will probably have another chance.
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#287814 - 05/05/08 04:39 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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I brought therapy up tonight and she just simply said F That and she didn't think she needed it and I tried to explain why I thought she did, and she didn't really care.

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#287823 - 05/05/08 05:34 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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I don't know what to tell you. I think you need to ask a therapist how to proceed. If she refuses to get help it is only further proof of how little she values herself. Sometimes intervention is a possibility, but that would mean telling her family and friends. At some point, you may have to do that to save her life. Right now you still have choices that are more descreet. I would definitely consult with a therapist. They are trained to deal with people and ways to get them to seek help. Is she still under 18. If so, until she turns 18 her parents still have some say over whether she gets into a rehap situation for the cutting.
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#287865 - 05/05/08 02:16 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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She turned 18 on April 15th, a little bit before that was when I started noticing all these changes in her attitude.

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#287871 - 05/05/08 02:25 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Well, her 18th birthday is a good reason for that party you organised.

Other than that, I agree with Joandboys, it's difficult knowing what to say. Somehow you need to balance her health and welfare with keeping her trust and not betraying confidences. yes, perhaps asking the advice of a counsellor, without actually naming names, might be worthwhile.

Why is she so against counselling?
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#288713 - 05/07/08 02:36 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I don't know why she doesn't want to do it. I asked her and she says she just doesn't, but I when I told her why I thought she needed to do it, she started crying and telling me to stop talking about it, so I stopped, but now I'm pretty sure that I know why she's acting like this and she just doesn't want to face it.

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#288730 - 05/07/08 03:22 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Registered: 08/26/07
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Good for you, hang in there, crying is good. You hit a nerve of truth. Just keep gently letting her know that you care what happens to her even if your not together.Keep letting her know that you know she doesn't want to talk about it but your not going to give up on her because she is worth it.She didn't totally turn you away, that is good. I don't think she will if she hasn't yet. Ease off a little and just talk to her as a friend and listen. You will get another opportunity eventually to bring it up. Definitely consult with a professional about how to proceed.
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#288778 - 05/07/08 05:53 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Well, it started because we got into a very large argument that we both said a bunch of hurtful stuff to the other, but I came back and talked to her about it, and that is when I talked to her about that. So she was already upset and crying at first, but then she stopped crying until I started talking to her about it and thens she started crying. So I know that that's the reason. I basically told her that I knew she was acting like this because its easier to not be involved with anybody because she didn't want to get hurt again like her ex did to her. So she was I basically told her she was acting like this because she was afraid and running away.

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#288779 - 05/07/08 06:00 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Registered: 08/26/07
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Loc: New York
Your doing good...I would still get some tips from a pro. I really think they might have ideas we haven't thought of.
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Cookie and Sweetie

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#288900 - 05/07/08 04:22 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Yeah, I sent a couple emails and the only thing they have responded was "send her in" so that they can get some money before they actually help somebody...xxxxxxxx.


Edited by PDM (05/07/08 05:14 PM)

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#288920 - 05/07/08 05:19 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Actually, I don't think that many therapists would help without seeing the patient. What if they gave the wrong advice?

The only way would be for you to seek advice for yourself ~ saying that you were worried about your friend ~ from a school counsellor, perhaps; not from someone professional, with whom you have no links.
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#289000 - 05/07/08 07:46 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
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Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: New York
Try speaking to a Psychology professor. They teach and might be more inclined to understand and help. You take the legal liability out of the question when you pose it as a hypothetical situation. Then they can say they never had knowledge that it was a real person.
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#289159 - 05/08/08 12:11 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: joandboys]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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Loc: UK
Yes, that could work!
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#289368 - 05/08/08 02:22 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I just found out that she smoked pot at least once recently, which she has never done before that. And I think she might turn it into a regular occasion.

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#289381 - 05/08/08 02:53 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Was she with others?
Perhaps she was trying to fit in.
It's not good for her health though ~ and I presume that it's illegal??
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#289401 - 05/08/08 03:51 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
I know it's not good for her health, and yes it is illegal where I am. And she wasn't doing it to fit in, she put herself with people so she could try it. Se searched for somebody who would let her try it. That was a couple weeks ago, but she was going to do it last night and then she bailed apparently.

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#289459 - 05/08/08 05:54 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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I wish I could do more to help.

Some people just won't let themselves be helped, unfortunately.
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"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#289863 - 05/09/08 04:32 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
She tells me she has gone through a phase like this before and she will get through it just like before, but I guess you're right, she just doesn't want to be helped. I'm just basically showing her that I am done with our bf/gf relationship right now and she appreciates that I'm finally giving her space, so maybe that will help her get out of this slump faster.

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#289873 - 05/09/08 07:30 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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That's possible.
Without knowing her and the situation, it's very hard to say.
This must be hard for you, too.

Take care & good luck ~ to both of you.
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#291098 - 05/12/08 06:33 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Registered: 04/23/08
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I anonymously told her mother everything, she knows that she's been sneaking out, smoking, and has had sex with somebody. She knows everything now, and is just waiting for her to get out of school in about an hour. I have to sit back and wait and see what happens. I decided today that she will not make the right decisions on her own, so I had to tell somebody who could actually have some control on her life.

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#291190 - 05/12/08 10:22 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
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I do hope that you have done the right thing.
This is such a difficult situation for you. smile
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#291329 - 05/13/08 03:01 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
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Ok, it seems that maybe what I did was just the push to get her out of this slump, or at least stop sneaking out and smoking and that xxxx, she may still feel this way and stuff, but that's what the party's for to make that part of her life better. After I told her mom everything, and her mom confronted her about it, they got into an argument, and basically her mom kicked her out of the house and said if you leave you are never coming back in until you clean up all this xxxx you've been doing. So, I know that sounds bad that it got her kicked out of her house, but I have faith that everything will work out in some way, shape or form. Now she is staying at my house for a little while just to find out what to do next. The best thing about this is: Her mom called her job and they are now going to do a drug test on her, so either she fails and gets fired, or she scrambles to de-tox because she smoked on Sunday, and it apparently takes a week to get out of the system naturally. So she is freaking out about losing her job and de-toxing, and what she has to do to de-tox is not a very fun thing, she has to drink one of those huge bottles of water with some weird stuff in it to help clean her system.

Well, as bad as this all sounds, the best is yet to come. When I went to pick her up from her house, she looked at me deep in my eyes and said "Listen, I am really sorry..." I said "for what?" and she said "You tried so hard to protect me from all this xxxx, and keep me from getting into this situation, and I just pushed you away and didn't listen, and now it's coming around and biting me in the butt. I'm so sorry that I didn't listen to you, just go ahead and say 'I told you so' because you did" and I just simply said "Listen, everybody makes mistakes, I'm not going to say that because I'm not going to kick you while you are down, I didn't want this all to happen, but I am glad you learned your lesson." And since then I have asked her a couple times to make sure she isn't going to do it again, and she just says "Honestly, it's just too much of a hassle, and I don't ever want to deal with this xxxx again."

So maybe, despite the fact that she got kicked out of her house, I think that this was just what she needed to realize what she was doing to herself and how bad she was messing up. I guess I'll just have to wait and see if she actually stops because all this happened only yesterday and she hasn't really had a chance to do anything again. But I really think she will not do it again, she seemed very sincere about what she said, and she is actually opening up to me again, and letting me talk to her about it, sometimes when I bring it up, she sounds a little bit annoyed because I kind of keep repeating myself, but she is actually telling me why she did stuff, who with, ect. And she just sounds all together sorry.

Oh, also, since I have a two story house, she can't really sneak out of the window, and she can't go down my stairs to get out because they creek and are right next to my dad's door. So that's another good thing about her staying with me, I can kind of keep an eye on her better, so that she can't sneak out or do anything to hurt herself. Most of all, I hope that the way I am reacting to this and being there for her and doing everything I can to help her, shows her that I still really love her, and that I will stick by her side no matter what happens.

Let's hope for the best. I will keep everybody updated, but for now, it seems to have worked out. If you are religious, please keep her in your prayers, because it couldn't hurt.


Edited by PDM (05/13/08 06:01 PM)

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#291376 - 05/13/08 06:01 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
I really hope that everything starts to pick up for her again now and that you will both be all right. smile
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"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#293850 - 05/23/08 06:06 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
We are getting better, there is still a lot of mending in our relationship, but I think we are on the long road to recovery, because she has sworn to not do any of this xxxx again. And admitted that what she was doing was kind of dumb.


Edited by PDM (05/24/08 12:24 AM)

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#293924 - 05/24/08 12:25 AM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Well done!
Keep up the good work.
Good luck to you both!
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"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#294711 - 05/26/08 09:10 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: PDM]
TheTangeMan Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 33
Ok I have another question. Well I was at my uncles birthday party and she was with me. Well I was sitting down talking to somebody and she got up to go get some food and she surprised me by hugging me from behind around my neck. Also later that night, we were laying down and she layed her head on my chest and fell asleep. Once again this morning she gave me a hug with both arms around my side.

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#296036 - 05/29/08 09:21 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
AlexaGrace Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 2
Hello,
I am new to these forums. and i have a question.

I have recently hugged a guy in a class and felt really great afterwards. He has a gf and I wanted to know if i should confront him and what i should say to him.

thanks a ton for hte advice

AlexaGrace

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#296061 - 05/29/08 10:00 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
joandboys Offline
Soulmate

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: New York
Hi Tangman, I am glad things are looking up. Since her mom kicked her out, I am sure she is glad that she has a place to stay. I am assuming you plan to keep her informed on the good progress so that mom doesn't worry too much and perhaps get into another fight. I also assume that your girlfriend doesn't know that you told her mom everything. You seem to have your friends trust now and if mom slips and tells her who told her the truth, your friend will feel betrayed. That shouldn't happen if you keep mom up to date on the good progress secretly. By the way, that cleansing thing doesn't work. It is an urban legend. My grandson did the very same thing and failed his drug test. I know that she is in a very bad situation because if she calls in sick, they will probably fire her. However, there may be a way to get around it if she is serious about cleaning up. Usually employers have drug programs with their health plans. If an employee comes in and voluntarily signs up for help and counciling I believe that they cannot fire them for that reason. It is when they test dirty and are found to be on drugs that they are fired. Someone could call the company anonymously and enquire. The only other option is to call in sick until she can test clean. That could take a couple of weeks. The tests nowadays are very sensitive. They do have test kits in the drug store. Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to suggest that she try to fool the system. I am merely saying that if she is serious about cleaning up, she should be given the chance without loosing her job. If she is forced to voluntarily sign up this might be the best thing that could happen. Now she might have to get into a program. She can always get a job. She only has one life.
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#296066 - 05/29/08 10:09 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: AlexaGrace]
joandboys Offline
Soulmate

Registered: 08/26/07
Posts: 2101
Loc: New York
Many people share casual hugs in a friendship way. Taking it slowly and waiting to see if he shows interest might be the way to go since he already has a girlfriend. If he does show interest, or wants to spend time with you, I would make sure that he is not cheating on his girlfriend before you consent to a date.
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Cookie and Sweetie

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#296102 - 05/29/08 11:37 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: TheTangeMan]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: TheTangeMan
Ok I have another question. Well I was at my uncles birthday party and she was with me. Well I was sitting down talking to somebody and she got up to go get some food and she surprised me by hugging me from behind around my neck. Also later that night, we were laying down and she layed her head on my chest and fell asleep. Once again this morning she gave me a hug with both arms around my side.


She obviously trusts you & really appreciates you being so supportive. smile
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"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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#296106 - 05/29/08 11:40 PM Re: I don't know what to do... [Re: AlexaGrace]
PDM Offline

True Blue Soulmate

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 22697
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: AlexaGrace
Hello,
I am new to these forums. and i have a question.

I have recently hugged a guy in a class and felt really great afterwards. He has a gf and I wanted to know if i should confront him and what i should say to him.

thanks a ton for hte advice

AlexaGrace

Hi AlexaGrace & welcome.

I have made a new thread for your question:

'Hugs'
http://www.wineintro.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=296104#Post296104
_________________________
"The secret of success is constancy to purpose" - Benjamin Disraeli.

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